Interview with Davey Hertz

Taking a step back from the story line now to how I started to talk to Davey, online of course. This took place in August 2009, when I was doing research about Carlus Seenus. This does do a lot of explaining though, so,

07/08/09

Age 27

BETHONIE WARING: Hello, wow, hello. Erm, thank you… for, erm, logging on, Mr Hertz.

DAVEY HERTZ: Your welcome. Thank you for listening.

BW: I’m sorry for distracting you from whatever it was you was doing before. Just out of curiosity, what were you doing before?

DH: Oh, I’ve not been busy lately. It’s been quiet. And when it’s quiet, it’s boring. I’m quite glad of the distraction, actually.

BW: Glad to be some help. So, as you know, I’ve been doing a little bit of research on the Underground. I never knew you were in the Underground, until the other day.

DH: You’re not supposed to now. That’s the idea.

BW: I like researching. Anyway… I wanted to ask what it’s like to be in the Underground.

DH: The Underground is strange and I’m not sure how much you know, so I don’t know how much I can say.

BW: Erm, maybe I should rephrase the question. How, would you say, you feel about the Underground? Would you say that was a good enough question?

DH: I would say it’s a question I can answer… if I step very carefully. Stepping carefully is a huge part of the Underground. It often feels like you’re always being watched, which, I’m pretty sure, is what happens. Sometimes you can feel really stressed, because everything happens at once, or at least very close after each other. It can be exciting – your running on adrenaline and nothing else. At other times, it can be boring, like I say, and that’s the scary time.

BW: Why?

DH: Because someone’s always doing something, and if you’re not doing something then there’s a chance that someone’s coming after you.

BW: That makes sense.

DH: Could I ask a question, quickly, please?

BW: Sure.

DH: What exactly are you researching?

BW: Well, the Underground, and Mr Seenus.

DH: And that’s how you found out about me?

BW: Well, yes.

DH: Oh, Carlus will be please.

BW: Well, I’m sorry. I… I just completely lost my train of thought. So, Davey, sorry. Got it! How did you get into the Underground?

DH: Getting into the Underground wasn’t a choice. At least, I didn’t know I was making the choice. I was living on the streets and a man… who I’m not going to name… a man took me in. He happened to be a member of the Underground. I had to get involved in his crime so I could stay with him.

BW: So is that how most people get into the Underground or… or what? Is there… I dunno…

DH: That’s one way in, I suppose. There are different ways. Of course, a lot of kids are brought into it from family members and friends of family members who are already involved in the Underground. And then there’s scouting.

BW: Scouting?

DH: Well… there’s different types of scouting. There’s gang scouting. You get gangs all the time in cities. Sometimes an Underground member will stroll over and see a gang and they see a bunch of thugs. They offer them some money and they have a gang.

BW: And that’s scouting?

DH: That’s one kind of scouting. And then there’s the individual scouting, where, for example, a poor, starving, kid wonders into an Underground shop and, unknowing the consequences, nicks some food. They’re almost always caught, of course. If they’re good, they’re taken on.

BW: It’s a lot more complicated than you would think.

DH: Yeah. A lot of people don’t see how big the Underground is. I wouldn’t know, but I saw one side of things and Carlus saw the other.

BW: So you were scouted and Carlus was inherited.

DH: Through family, yeah.

BW: Carlus… Carlus Seenus, isn’t it?

DH: Because you don’t know, right? Yeah, Carlus is a Seenus. His dad was Innot Seenus.

BW: Innot was high in the Underground, then? And that’s how he found his way in.

DH: See, I don’t know why we’re even doing this. You know everything already.

BW: I know the facts. I don’t know the feelings. Was it weird, coming from two different backgrounds, between you and Carlus?

DH: Well, yes. It always was going to be weird between us. People were always pulling us, him, in different directions. I never really knew where I stood with Carlus. In knew I was below him. I was pretty stupid as a kid, but I knew this. Carlus never really made me feel like that, though. He never made anyone feel like that. Not until I was a teenager and he finally found his guts. He was ignorant to the social differences in the Underground. He didn’t care who I was. I was his charge, his friend, his carer, however you would have it. I was his and he looked after me

BW: And you, on the other hand…

DH: And me, on the other hand, exactly. I was ignorant to pretty much anything but social differences and political wrong doings. I had almost no awareness of anything right up until it happened.

BW: And is that how friendships usually work in the Underground?

DH: No. There aren’t usually many friendships in the Underground. If there are friendships they’re always split by the Underground. Look at Mr Seenus and Mr Hennison.

BW: What happened with…

DH: You don’t need to know, I’m sure. How much more do you need to know? I’m kind of busy.

BW: I thought… oh, never mind. Thank you for your time

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